How do you know when you've gone overboard?

[Jack Lang]

@kbsmoke , that's great. But like you said, quitting is only part of the battle. Staying away is no cakewalk. I think you made a diparaging remark about AA. I went to a lot of AA meetings and met some of the biggest jerks I've ever known there. But attending those god-awful meetings was instrumental in keeping me from drinking again. It's just the penance we have to pay. I did sliding scale therapy at my local community mental health center too. That helped, and going there wasn't as painful as those AA meetings.

[kbsmoke]

I went to AA for a year and it just wasn't for me. I have all the tools I learned there. It was paramount in my ability to overcome the insermountable task at the time. I wasn't trying to disparage anyone else or sully the organization. I didn't like it was all I was saying. I have a long row to hoe but I am very optimistic. Again thanks for your help I probably wouldn't have done anything about it if you hadn't said anything.

[jesper1]

Also tried AA.. but after half a year i found it wasnt for me.. Now i have been clean for a loooong time.. But i know that just 1 drink Will do me in for good.. And with a wonderfull daughter and friends i get by..but its a fight every Day and Will be untill i go to the Stars once more

[justspike]

Some people just can't or don't want to deal with the hugs. Or the group stories. The option for personal one on one "therapy" is always an option even if your uninsured or think you don't have the means to pay extra for that. There is a little unknown"secret" most states that have casinos, have gambling "misuse" programs that are funded by the casinos and most counseling services are free to the public and most counselors are dual addiction specialists.

Sometimes people need peer support and sometimes people just need support from someone whose been there.

Also, the biggest tip I was ever taught was once you cross the bridge to not being able to ever casually use whatever there choice of poison may be. You can't really ever quit. You can only stop. Sometimes you can stop for years or decades and that's the goal stopping for as long as you can. Life's circumstances almost always have a way to cause whatever the poison is to rear its ugly head. Be it tobacco, alcohol or misuse of substances.
Jmho. With years of my own personal experiences. But everyone is different.
Hope anyone and everyone that needs help can find it.

[kbsmoke]

You can't really ever quit. You can only stop. Sometimes you can stop for years or decades and that's the goal stopping for as long as you can. Life's circumstances almost always have a way to cause whatever the poison is to rear its ugly head. Be it tobacco, alcohol or misuse of substances.Jmho. With years of my own personal experiences. But everyone is different.Hope anyone and everyone that needs help can find it.

Very well said and so true.

[jesper1]

Yeahh.. U have to take one Day at the time..... And dont belive for a second that u Can " just" take one drink.. U cant !!

[kbsmoke]

Well @Jack Lang still AF. Made it through the holiday weekend without a drink. Was lots of fun and I am able to remember everything. It's become somewhat normal not to drink although I would like 1. Living 30min at a time and winning.

[jesper1]

Thats the Way to go.. Best of Luck

[Jack Lang]

@kbsmoke , I'm glad you're doing well. Allow me to say a few things about AA. Then I swear on my cat's grave I'll never write about that organization. I respectfully ask that you read what I write, not merely glance over it. Often I posted observations on this site that triggered negative, sometimes hostile responses, to something I never said. It was clear that the person who wrote the response merely glanced at my post, focused a a few words or phrases, and attacked me for something he or she imagined I said. Had that person actually read what I said, it would not have triggered his or her reaction.

First let me say what AA is useful for. If you go to meetings regularly in the first years of your sobriety, the chances of you not drinking again will increase substantially. Let me add that I rarely enjoyed going to meetings. If you attend meetings regularly you will hear a lot of comments about "the love in these rooms". Personally I found more backbiting, egotistically motivated one upsmanship than love. Members remarked that it wasn't for them. It's not for anyone. Going to meetings was generally unpleasant, and though I met some decent people there, I met a lot more jerks. But if you really want to stop drinking going to those meetings are a good tool.

I went into rehab in late October of 1986. That Christmas I became very depressed and was going to go to a bar to drink alcohol. Before I did, I attended an AA meeting. After the meeting was over I went home. That is the one instance I can specifically point to where attending a meeting kept me from picking up a drink and sliding back into the abyss of full blown active alcoholism. In other words going to that meeting kept from minimally living the rest of my years feeling very unpleasant, and probably dying a lot sooner than I would have otherwise.

Go or don't. You've probably heard stories of people who drank regularlly to excess, stopped, and stayed stopped without going to AA. And it surely happens. But I would wager a substantial amount of money that the relapse rate of people who rgularly attended AA meetings regularly in the first years of not drinking is significantly lower than people who don't. If you disagree with my assessment, please don't argue with me. Give me the respect I deserve for having this opinion. If you disagree with me address your reasoning with kbsmoke or the community at large.

[LeeAnn]

A thoughtful well written post @Jack Lang . Kudos. There is nothing like personal experience to lend credence to opinions and observations. Alcohol has never been my personal demon other than to have been the victim of those who were that way. But I have fought my own brand of personal demons and it is never easy.

The direction this thread is heading is very positive and I hope it continues as a way to support anyone looking to conquer their demon.

AA has its uses and there is an entire industry built upon it from NA to AA to rehabs. But it is flawed and more and more evidence points to those flaws. Anyone who doesn't go to AA should not feel guilty or consider not going as failure. But everyone needs some support in some way. @kbsmoke I am very happy for you and your sobriety, keep it up and you will find life is much more meaningful.


http://www.scientificamerican.com/ar...nonymous-work/

https://psmag.com/after-75-years-of-...393#.4v4il31o0

[Haggis]

If you can drink a six pack of an 8% to 9% micro brew beer and still make it to work the next day........You may be a alcoholic.

It takes years of practice to be a pro.

Haha, yea in any given field.

[B calm]

Also, the biggest tip I was ever taught was once you cross the bridge to not being able to ever casually use whatever there choice of poison may be. You can't really ever quit. You can only stop.

Although I rarely drink these days I am still an alcoholic. I believe it's absolutely true that once you cross that bridge you can never go back to being a "normal drinker".

Sailors sometimes ask the question "When should I put a reef in my sail?" The answer is "When you start wondering if you should put a reef in your sail".

It took me ten years of stopping and starting and thinking that I could drink like a gentleman if I drank "only on Saturdays", "only during weekends", "only weekends and maybe Wednesdays" to realize that moderation doesn't work. I always ended up drinking far too much.

[breakraver2]

I have been down this road many times and it is hard. If you are asking the question than why not quit? I noticed me not being myself, seclusion, all the normal symptoms of addictions. There are my aids out there please check them out. Google you local area or simply go to an AA meeting and have a chat with someone. good luck

[LeeAnn]

Sometimes its just the fact that one gets up out of a chair and goes to the meeting that provides the emotional/mental reinforcement necessary to not drink. They say its a private inner battle and it may often feel like alone-ness but there really is always someone out there to lend a hand or some aid. I know the 12 step thing and have been in maybe 10 different kinds group therapy and actually hated every minute of it but in the dark night it gave me some one to call or to talk to when I needed it. Now I just come here and read threads

There is so much research going on now about addition, and dopamine and brain chemicals, it really does give one hope that the answer is just around the corner.

[COSGringo]

It takes a serious commitment. You have to beat yourself. You will most likely lose the game but perhaps win the series.

Effort. It's required.

I hope it's a minor affliction those of you that have dealt with it. Mine was. It's sooooooo tough. I every now and then still overdue it but so do a lot of folks. Sometimes I am glad it's booze and not drugs but neither is good. I am on SCHEDII Dilau , oxc, fenty, etc.
However I am tapering off. No one asked me but I am. I had a new surgery so it's time.

Booze- well for me it's a social lubricant. It's so tough for some of us, so tough. Tough to deal with folks and in business. Considering I am writing now and dealing with folks a ton, it's tough and there's time I want to- but rarely do.

If you fall, get up. Start over.

It's socially acceptable. It does it's magic and it's sickness. I wish all the best of luck.

If you are way over the top, consider Baclofen.

If it's not wrong to say and I think it's not- for addicts (don't kid yourself), check out mywayout.org and go to the forum and look under the meds/alternatives (I think, it's been a long time).

I can say without doubt that if you what to quit but MUST have to have a med- LARGE dose baclofen works. I stopped as I just could not keep up 240 mg/day as I worried if I lost my access or was admitted to a hospital. It did remove my want of booze. It was amazing.

I am not saying you should- it's a dangerous substitute and you have to stick to it. I will say you won't go being whacky on baclofen if you do it right. You must stick to it.

YOU MUST NEVER JUST STOP. IGNORE THIS IDEA UNLESS YOUR LIFE DEPENDS ON QUITTING. CONSIDER IT THEN. IT's better. I did it for a long while and it changed me.

Don't quite booze asap. Not if you are a real drinker. Please taper and use benzos but not to excess. You don't want a seizure.

Message me if you are at the bottom. I swear I can help and I want nothing more than you to succeed. I am not a fan of AA I will tell you now. There are groups I've liked but they all still do the "hi my name is badonkadonk and I'm an alcoholic/addict/glue sniffer - what have you.

You need to want it. You don't have to hit rock bottom and DON'T WAIT. I knew when I slurred on some calls for my job I had to clean up. Still, I was functional.

Don't wait. Get clean. Don't do that Malibu Passages lest you have a ton of $ and don't care that you will slip when you leave. It's about $20K easy. No really it is. Looks like fun though.

Be strong, don't get hooked on ANYTHING. Even smokes. Be you, enjoy life, and forgive.

The last one of that I am trying still. I did now know so many could be so cruel at times. Love your loved one (if you have one), else be nice to your lost love, and LOVE YOURSELF and work hard.

Bless all...