Kratom

[JustJ]

Motivatedbysnow, I know that you know we are in the same boat. But in the interest in informing the rest of the crowd here I will describe my experiences with kratom. I live in chronic pain due to an aggressive, inoperable malignancy which had me on epic amounts of painkillers for many years. Every month I had a jumbo bottle of 0p@na 40ER, another bottle of 0p@na 10IR (both of these well beyond the maximum 'legal' amounts), fent patches, a huge but pointless bottle of 240 perc 10s (that did nothing), 90 Lorazepam 2mg, and @mbien 12.5CR so I could sleep through the WD's I'd experience at night from all of that wearing off around bedtime. With all of that I would still run out before the end of the month and was forced to buy a handful of subs from a friend to detox over a long weekend so that I could make it back to work. I have two kids I have to support and an insane double mortgage for a house at the beach. I collapsed one day from what they think was a seizure, and was fired for no-call / no-show (after 15 yrs...) and lost everything except my kids. About that time my health really started to go downhill and it was not looking good at all. I decided to pass on the whole hospice care thing and quit cold turkey all the meds I was taking rather than increase everything - I wanted to spend at least some quality time with my kids before I checked out. The ensuing insane WD's lead me to discover kratom, which was nothing short of a godsend, and really helped me shed the vicious dependencies I had built up. I continued to use kratom for maintenance, since I did require something for pain management. It has now been a bit more than a year since then, and I am in the same situation as motivatedbysnow - the massive amounts of plant material I am consuming is really wrecking my GI tract. I will have to agree that for my needs, that Bali kratom is the best for pain relief and opiate WD's - but the bulk involved can really cause some issues. I've come to the conclusion that the best way to utilize kratom to avoid these problems is to make a tea from it and strain out the plant material. I have tried nearly all of the different varieties of kratom, as well as the extracts, isolates, etc - and would strongly recommend avoiding the concentrated forms for the same reason that no one with a h1dro habit should jump straight to H. The economy of scale involved with plain leaf powdered Bali is far superior than something like UEI - and the tolerance to the latter builds very quickly and will ruin your ability to appreciate anything else. Good for a once a year treat, but should never be used often. There are many, many horror stories of folks who have ignored that advice and found themselves hopelessly addicted to UEI, etc - and the withdrawals are just as bad or worse than regular opiates. If you stick with standard "plain leaf" kratom, you will generally find that the maintenance amount stays consistently low, and is quite cheap compared to the alternatives. One of the unforseen side effects of kratom use is that it has completely eliminated my desire to smoke and drink alcohol. There are many folks in another forum I am on who have had great success quitting hardcore alcohol addictions using kratom. It is a fantastic tool, but must be treated with respect. Pharmaceutical companies hate it since they cannot patent it, and it cuts into their profit margins every time someone is able to free themselves from the shackles of opiate addiction. Sorry for the long rant - just my 3c.

[chemicalchart]

I'll add my 2 cents here on Kratom. I've never tried to hop from high levels of opiates to Kratom but can imagine the amount of Kratom required, esp. if it's plain old Bali would screw up the stomach and make for some unpleasantness. I've used Kratom twice to get off painkillers. The first time I tapered down off h*dr* to about 7.5 mgs a day then shifted to Bali Kratom without a hitch. Actually I had a tiny bit of 50X extract that knocked me on my rear but I immediately downsized to about 6 grams of Bali a day, which isn't much. The second time I was starting to work up the ladder on Op@na ER so I once again tapered down to as low a maintenance dose as I dared and again went to Kratom. This time, as you can imagine, it was much harder but I kept at it and it worked and now I just use 4 or 5 grams of Bali a day for energy, once in the morning with coffee and once in the evening. I stay away from UEI as I've tried it a few times and discovered how powerful it is. Like others day, you'll just end up hopelessly addicted to it instead. I always get my powdered Bali from one of the many excellent online outfits and, never, ever, ever from the local "shops". I have a friend who will only buy the leaf as she is afraid of what might possibly be in the powder but I've never had a single problem myself. I have intermittent pain, not chronic thank goodness but when it spikes it is hell. Kratom does little to nothing in the pain department, at least not for me. But it's a fantastic tool to have in your toolbox.

[chronic]

I would really like to try Kratom or even poppy pods to help with lowering my dose of pain relief meds and get to a stage where I don't have to take as much as I do without any withdrawals and not trying to detox completely just a bit so what I'm taking now which is an amount that doesn't work well at all anymore to then taking that same amount afer using less by taking kratom for a while and then the dosage I'm takiing now would work much better..How well does it really help with stopping wd's bearing in mind I'm just wanting to lower my dose and not detox completely?Also can seeds for this plant be purhased anywhere as I doubt I'd be able to have live plants shipped to my destination?This would help me out immensly if I could take kratom either purchased from a reliable source or even growing the plant myself as I have a great green thumb and live in a perfect climate where just about anything will grow?

Chronic...

[jb0nez]

Don't bother trying to grow your own kratom it's a tree, takes 5 years to mature, and requires specific tropical environment to produce best alkaloids. It is a MIRACLE for detox/lowering pain meds doses, but keep in mind it's still an opiate, just a weak one. Also doesn't mix so well with standard pain meds; best to use one or the other. Like switch to kratom for a few days or weeks then go back to pain meds with a lower tolerance. Don't combine them, kratom has a slight antagonistic effect which actually makes your own pain meds less effective.

Poppy pods are powerful, unpredictable, and should absolutely not be used for trying to detox or lower pain meds dosages.

[JustJ]

Agreed on the pods - DONT go there. Waaay too much of a risk of addiction and WD is utter hell since there are about a dozen different constituents. Now, as far as growing kratom, it is quite easy - assuming you live in So Cal or South FL. They grow very fast, and many have 20ft tall trees after 2 yrs - that also have effective results. Obviously they get better with age.... So if you live in a tropical paradise, get you some plants before they ban the stuff. Indiana already has - bastards.

[August59]

Here is a place that appears to sell Kratom in bulk powder form. I know nothing about good strains and bad stains and what a good price is for Kratom. I just happened to notice the handled it because I was looking at something else on their site - Agmatine which is good for lowering tolerance to opiates and also helps with withdrawl.

As I absolutely know nothing about Kratom, if anyone can give a little bit of feedback on this particular type I would appreciate so I can learn a little bit about it. Thank you!

http://www.ktbotanicals.com/mitragyn...om-p-8051.html

[JWIZZIE]

I have tried this one from KTbotanicles.They are my one stop shop since I have seen their operation weekly for the past 5 months. I'm really lucky that their place of business is near me. They don't have a regular store front retail shop like I expected but when I arrived I was impressed but all of the great items they have!! I liked this stain of kratom that august59 is referring too but had to switch because I didn't want my tolerance to get shot.. THe web site is great and its all true

[jb0nez]

Stock up on kratom by the kilo now. Word is it will soon be impossible to import. I have a personal friend who had a shipment of 1 kilo, sent directly from Indonesia, confiscated by the *FDA* AND two agents gave him a personal visit! (yes, FDA, not DEA).
They said the way the website for the vendor words it, they're in violation of the clean food and cosmetics act (or something similar). And it sounds like this is going to be the norm here shortly.

[Dragonfly]

Does anyone want to share any experiences with Kratom? I've been using it for about 7 months and really like it. Anyone else?ttkitty

My husband has hcv (hep c, 17years) and horrid fatigue. We got our first kratom today, Maeng Da strain, and after two doses it looks to be an answer to prayer for him!

[Crypto]

I totally missed the import ban news and didn't see the post here warning about it.
http://www.botanicallegaldefense.org...om-import-ban/

I recently purchased 3 lbs because I buy in bulk and just went to check something on the wholesale website I have been using for years and they are gone. It says "down for maintanence" but they have been down for days. To add insult to injury, I recently sold one of the lbs. I had purchased at cost and gave a 1/4 lb to a friend in need. I always counted on kratom for times I could not get an order or when trying to cut down, lower tolerance or take a break. It's much easier to taper off kratom than pks.

This is friggin brilliant....ban the import of kratom, then make the most popular pk schedule II....wtf?

[Crypto]

I am looking for a new source for bulk Kratom. I have recently been buying from a source (I am not sure if it's o.k. to name it) and I don't want to accuse them of anything but my experience seems to be that their powder is ground too fine and it flies and spreads everywhere when I open the bag to get out a little. It also doesn't seem to last as long as other brands I have purchased and I could be wrong but it seems like the ultra fine powder is somehow whipped with air to bulk it up and make it look like more than it is. I can't figure out any other explanation for why the same kilo and same dosage doesn't last as long from this vendor as it did with other brands of the same type of Kratom. Their price is reasonable considering the ban on import has put some out of business including my preferred vendor for the last several years.

Any help would be greatly appreciated since I have to order very soon.

If anyone has a source they could share for buying Green Vein Thai, Red Borneo or Bali in at least 1lb amount I would really appreciate it.

[Crypto]

Tried a new vendor this week and am not really happy with results. I purchased a kilo of Bali and found it to be weaker than both the Green Vein Thai and Red Borneo I was getting from Kratom Underground. The Bali lasts an hour or two less than the other two brands so I won't be buying from http://www.oduskratom.com/ again. Maybe Bali is just
weaker but I was going with recommendations by others who had tried Bali and liked it. It also could just be my body chemistry.

[Wizard]

Tried a new vendor this week and am not really happy with results. I purchased a kilo of Bali and found it to be weaker than both the Green Vein Thai and Red Borneo I was getting from Kratom Underground. The Bali lasts an hour or two less than the other two brands so I won't be buying from http://www.oduskratom.com/ again. Maybe Bali is just
weaker but I was going with recommendations by others who had tried Bali and liked it. It also could just be my body chemistry.

Wow Crypto, that's really surprising to me. Everyone I've talked with on the big message boards RE Odus's Bali (all their kratom products, I love the soap) say that his strain was one of the best. I know I gave you the Odus info for an "approved" reputable and reliable vendor that tons, and I mean tons of people have left reviews on. I'm disappointed that you're disappointed, that bites. Make sure you are switching up strains on a regular basis to avoid SSS. Was this Bali green or red veined? The red vein of any strain is much higher in the alkaloids that relieve pain. I bought a couple different strains of red making sure they came from different regions and got some green (as it's recommended for general moderate pain), but most that prefer green stem say they use green vein primarily to mix it with the red and say it's higher in the specifics for mood and anxiety. Red vein is the most sedating too, which I welcome, but those who don't follow the Kratom 101's manual and mix the white with red if taking any amount of red or even green during the day to balance out the desired effects. I'll tell you, taking just white vein even in small amounts would only be preferred by those who need or enjoy the zippy effects of most all know strains of white vein. Now I see vendors selling yellow vein, but I understand the "yellow" is made yellow by the difference in the way the fresh kratom is dried. It only technically grows in red, green, and white.

I'm bummed to hear you're not happy with the kratom you got from Odus's set up. He comes highly recommended and also carries all the various tinctures, resins, kratom that is manipulated to be sometimes as much as 100x stronger that simply ingesting the plain leaf - which is definitely what I recommend. For one thing the tinctures are a whole lot of alcohol combined with the cooked down leaf for major strength and the resins are said to be even stronger. I've read many posts by many advanced kratom users and all say if you venture off the plain leaf for your needs you are asking for one big azz monkey on your back. Like anyone needs another "monkey". I'll have to send you a list of the most popular vendors, or post it here, how each vendor and each product from said vendor rates among the tons of options out there right now. The use of kratom has explodedi in some the same reasons heroin has - . Whether pk'S are RX'd or not, kratom is not only cheaper, but it's a realistic way of getting off pk's, combining with PK's to make them last longer or to get off completely without the horrible WD's.

AND OF COURSE NOW THE GOVERNMENT IS ACTIVELY BANNING IT AND HAS HAD SUCCESS IN INDIANA ALREADY AND ONE OTHER STATE. CAN THEY NOT LEAVE ANYTHING, AND LIKE MEDICAL MJ, A FRIGGIN PLANT (KRATOM IS IN THE COFFEE FAMILY) ALONE SO PEOPLE HAVE OPTIONS OTHER THAN THE RIDICULOUS PRICES AND EVEN HARM, HARM IN EVERY SENSE FROM ADDICTION, ODs, to long term effects on a person's body that PK's have.

Kratom is an opioid, not an opiate, big difference. It does not cross the blood brain barrier which is why it's very difficult to get a "buzz" on it.

Many countries have banned kratom and many US drug tests and pain clinincs are now testing for it. RIDICULOUS AND I'M NOT GOING TO GET MYSELF GOING ON THAT SUBJECT!!

[Crypto]

@Wizard don't sweat it.....lots of people told me Bali is the way to go but either I didn't hear them say "Red" or it wasn't mentioned. Anyway, I bought green bali. My main purpose is to keep wd's at bay for the longest amount of time possible. I used to buy strains based on which gave me the most energy but now I just want not to be sick and waking up in the middle of the night having to mix up another batch of nasty tasting kratom and then waiting 1/2 hour before my restless legs will allow me to go back to sleep due to wd's. I used Green Vein Thai for years with no problems but my vendor went out of business and I am now in search of a new good vendor.

My order came in two separate packages, maybe he will let me return one package for a different variety or the red bali. I already sent a note on their contact page explaining how this was not really working very well for me.


Also Wizard...I'm with you on the outrage of what is going on in this country (and others) concerning perfectly harmless herbs that could render many toxic FDA approved drugs currently on the market and killing people by the thousands, useless.

[justspike]

@Crypto I've found the tinctures work much better. And you don't have to cough up stems or pick them out of your teeth. I know of two vendors who have been around since before Ryan Haight, take CC and deliver next day if orders are placed before 4est. If your interested when I get home Sun night I'll send them to you.

I've been reading your posts (not in a stalker way) and see you got some sub.
My guess since its from a SY its strips with naloxone in it, that stuff can make you super sick regardless if you haven't had opes in a day or so. I get sick from it either because of an allergy or because it does work against the bupe regardless what they say. And it takes a while to get used to that med.
Don't get me wrong sub can be a life changer, but the original bupe, subutex generic non strip form works wonders for me and if I go into more detail I'll be way off topic. Hijacking your post. So I'll ttyl
G-luck